Angela Foulkes on Mana News 17 March 2004
PRESENTER (DALE HUSBAND): THIS MORNING WE LOOK AT THE IMPACT OF TWO BIG EVENTS AFFECTING THE CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST. FIRST, THE MAORI AFFAIRS SELECT COMMITTEE FOUND FAULT WITH THE TRUST INCLUDING WHAT IT THOUGHT WAS A TOP-HEAVY WELLINGTON-BASED BUREAUCRACY AND A LACK OF TRANSPARENCY. THE SELECT COMMITTEE ALSO CRITICISED THE TRUST FOR FUNDING COMPREHENSIVE RESEARCH TO SUIT GOVERNMENT POLICY RATHER THAN CONFINING ITSELF TO FORESTRY CLAIMS. THEN RECENTLY THE TRUST HAD A MORALE BOOST WHEN IT WON A PRIVY COUNCIL APPEAL WORTH $40MILLION IN TAX REFUNDS. THE TRUST’S DEPUTY CHAIR, ANGELA FOULKES, TALKED TO CAROL ARCHIE ABOUT ITS RESPONSES.
ANGELA FOULKES (DEPUTY CHAIR, CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST): THE TRUST WAS ESTABLISHED AS A TAX-FREE ORGANISATION. IT WAS TAXED IN THAT FASHION FOR A NUMBER OF YEARS. THE RULES WERE THEN CHANGED ON IT EXTERNALLY BY INLAND REVENUE AND IT’S TAKEN EIGHT YEARS TO GET THAT OVERTURNED BY THE PRIVY COUNCIL. NOW THAT’S BEEN AN AWFUL LOT OF WORK FOR THE TRUST’S STAFF OVER THE YEARS, FOR PREVIOUS TRUSTEES AND, IN SOME WAY, I’M ABSOLUTELY CERTAIN THAT HAD WE LOST THE PRIVY COUNCIL CASE PEOPLE WOULD HAVE TALKED ABOUT HOW THE TRUST HAD WASTED TIME AND MONEY AND, YOU KNOW, IT WAS JUST LITIGATING ALL THE TIME BUT THE FACT THAT WE WON IT, NO-ONE IS SAYING, ‘WASN’T IT GOOD THAT FINALLY WE’RE BACK WHERE WE WERE WHEN MAORI AND THE CROWN SET UP THE TRUST.’ IT’S IMPORTANT THE PEOPLE REALISE THAT IT TOOK EIGHT YEARS TO GET FAIRNESS IN THE TAX MATTER FOR THE TRUST AND FOR CLAIMANTS.
REPORTER (CAROL ARCHIE): QUITE APART FROM THE PRIVY COUNCIL DECISION THE TRUST HAS HAD A LOT ON ITS PLATE WITH THE SELECT COMMITTEE CRITICISMS AND SO ON. HOW IS YOUR REVIEW OF THE TRUST’S ROLE AND ACTIVITIES GOING?
FOULKES: WHAT WE’RE LOOKING AT IS THREE AREAS, REALLY. WE’RE LOOKING TO SEE HOW WE CAN MAKE IT MUCH CLEARER TO CLAIMANT GROUPS WHAT THE CRITERIA AND THE PROCESS IS AND THE ASSESSMENT WILL BE IN APPLICATIONS FOR FUNDING, SO THAT MAKES IT EASIER FOR THEM AND THEY CAN COMPARE ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND SEE WHETHER THEY’RE BEING TREATED FAIRLY. WE’RE LOOKING AT WHAT WE SHOULD DO AND WHAT CLAIMANT GROUPS SHOULD DO. IN THE PAST TO SMOOTH THINGS OR TRY AND MOVE THINGS ALONG THE TRUST HAS UNDERTAKEN A NUMBER OF THINGS ITSELF THAT WOULD OBVIOUSLY BE BETTER IN CLAIMANT HANDS BUT EQUALLY A LOT OF GROUPS NEED SOME ASSISTANCE, SO HOW DO WE MANAGE THAT. AND THEN WE’RE JUST LOOKING AT OUR INTERNAL STRUCTURES. ARE WE PROVIDING VALUE WITH THE STAFF RESOURCES AND ACTIVITIES WE UNDERTAKE? SO IN EACH AREA WE’VE GOT WORK UNDERWAY AND BY THE END OF JUNE WE HOPE TO HAVE WORKED OUT THE BEST WAYS THE TRUST CAN MANAGE ITSELF TO GO THROUGH THIS LAST PERIOD OR HOPEFULLY LAST PERIOD OF NEGOTIATIONS AND SETTLEMENT IN THE CROWN FORESTS.
REPORTER: HAVE YOU BEEN TOO TOP HEAVY IN YOUR VIEW?
FOULKES: I THINK MORE WE’VE TRIED TO DO TOO MANY THINGS FOR TOO MANY PEOPLE IN TOO MANY WAYS AND TO SOME EXTENT I THINK THE TRUST HAS TO PULL BACK AND SAY TO PEOPLE, ‘WHEN YOU’RE READY, WHEN YOU KNOW WHAT YOU WANT TO DO, WHEN YOU’RE ORGANISED IN A WAY THAT CAN WORK, WE’RE HERE. THESE ARE THE RULES, THESE ARE THE THINGS WE CAN DO FOR YOU, NOW COME TO US AND WE’LL HAVE A LOOK AND WE’LL HELP YOU GET A CASE TOGETHER BUT BASICALLY IT’S IN YOUR OWN HANDS.’ NOW THAT WILL, I THINK, INEVITABLY MEAN THAT MORE WILL BE DONE BY CLAIMANTS, LESS WILL BE DONE BY THE TRUST.
REPORTER: IT WAS A CLEAR MESSAGE THAT THE MONEY HAD TO BE TARGETED AT FOREST LAND CLAIMS WHICH IS WHAT IT SAYS IN YOUR DEED. DOES THAT MEAN THAT YOU WON’T HAVE TO DO SO MUCH SPENDING ON RESEARCH AS YOU HAVE IN THE PAST?
FOULKES: ONE OF THE THINGS THE TRUST IS VERY CLEAR ON, THIS IS AN AWFUL LOT OF RESEARCH THAT HAS BEEN DONE, WE TALK ABOUT THE NUMBER OF REPORTS THAT HAVE GONE OVER TO THE WAITANGI TRIBUNAL THAT STILL HAVEN’T RESULTED IN SETTLEMENTS. THERE’S A LOT OF WORK STILL TO BE DONE. THE NEGOTIATION PROCESS AND THE MANDATING PROCESS AND THE TRIBUNAL PROCESSES FOR THOSE THAT FOLLOW THEM WILL CONTINUE BUT WE THINK WE’RE AT THE BEGINNING OF THE END BUT THAT END MAY BE A NUMBER OF YEARS AWAY. WHAT THE TRUST WILL BE DOING, THOUGH, IS MAKING CERTAIN THAT PEOPLE UNDERSTAND WHAT WE CAN DO. I THINK IN THE PAST TOO MANY AGENCIES AND PEOPLE AND THE ANSWER TO ANY ISSUE HAS BEEN, ‘GO AND ASK THE CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST’ AND WE HAVE TO BE QUITE CLEAR THAT WE HAVE A MANDATE AND PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT THING THE TRUST NEEDS TO SAY TO PEOPLE IS THAT WE’LL BE SPENDING THE MONEY IN TERMS OF OUR TRUST DEED AND, YOU KNOW, THE THING SITS ON THE DESK AT MEETINGS VERY CLEARLY NOW AND IF THE TRUST DEED DOESN’T ALLOW US TO DO IT, IT WON’T BE DONE.
REPORTER: WHAT ABOUT BETTER CO-ORDINATION WITH THE TRIBUNAL AND WITH THE GOVERNMENT’S NEGOTIATING ARM? IS THAT SOMETHING THAT IS HAPPENING STILL?
FOULKES: I THINK WE HAVE TO WALK A VERY CAREFUL LINE IN THAT, THAT OUR ROLE IS TO FUND CLAIMANTS BUT CLEARLY THE CROWN, AS THE OTHER PARTY TO THE SETTLEMENT, HAS A SIGNIFICANT ROLE IN SETTING THE AGENDA FOR CLAIMANTS SO WE ARE PLANNING TO WORK IN A WAY THAT IS AWARE OF THEIR NEEDS THAT DOESN’T HAVE THE FORESTRY TRUST AS AN IMPEDIMENT WHEN BOTH CLAIMANTS AND THE CROWN ARE READY TO MOVE BUT EQUALLY WE AREN’T ACTUALLY PART OF THE SETTLEMENT PROCESS, WE’RE PART OF THE FUNDING PROCESS SO KNOWING WHAT THEY’RE DOING, KEEPING IN TOUCH WITH BOTH THE OFFICE OF TREATY SETTLEMENTS AND THE TRIBUNAL, TRYING TO WORK OUT SO THAT OUR PROCESSES DON’T IMPEDE THEIR PROCESSES AND HOPEFULLY VICE VERSA, BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY THE TRUST IS INDEPENDENT, IT ISN’T AN ARM OF THE CROWN, IT’S SOMETHING WE MAKE VERY CLEAR, IT’S THERE TO RESPOND TO CLAIMANTS DESIRE TO MOVE THROUGH TO SETTLEMENT.
REPORTER: THERE’S ANOTHER $40MILLION TAX REFUND COMING BACK TO YOU. WILL YOU REALLY NEED ALL THAT MONEY NOW?
FOULKES: IT’S DIFFICULT TO SAY. ONE OF THE PIECES OF WORK WE’RE TRYING TO DO IS LANDSCAPE OUT INTO THE FUTURE WHAT THE SETTLEMENT PROCESS MIGHT BE LIKE. ON OUR PAST EXPERIENCE, ASSESS WHAT THE CALLS ON THE TRUST MAY BE. I MEAN, AT ONE LEVEL WE HAVE TO BE VERY CAREFUL THAT WE HAVE THE FUNDS TO FUND THE LAST CLAIMANT SO THERE’S A MANAGEMENT PROCESS. WE HAVE TO TRY AND WORK OUT WHEN CLAIMS MIGHT BE SETTLED TO ENSURE THAT AS SOON AS THEY’RE SETTLED WE CAN WORK TO MOVE THEM MONEY ACROSS TO CLAIMANTS AS QUICKLY AS POSSIBLE SO THERE’S A BALANCING ACT AS THE TRUST MATURES AND HOPEFULLY, AND WE ALL DESPERATELY HOPE, THE SETTLEMENT PROCESS SPEEDS UP.
PRESENTER: ANGELA FOULKES ENDING THAT STORY FROM CAROL ARCHIE.
(Source: NEWZTEL NEWS AGENCY LTD)