Angela Foulkes on Mana News 19 March 2004

PRESENTER (NAUMIA PONIKURANGI):  FIRST TO TREATY SETTLEMENTS AND THE DEPUTY CHAIR OF THE CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST, ANGELA FOULKES, SAYS CALLS FOR SPEEDING-UP THE TREATY SETTLEMENT PROCESS OFTEN OVERLOOK ITS COMPLEXITY.  SHE SAYS AS AN EXAMPLE NOBODY IN 1989 WOULD HAVE BELIEVED THAT THE CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST WOULD STILL BE FUNDING RESEARCH FOR FOREST CLAIMS IN 2004.  SHE SPOKE TO CAROL ARCHIE.

ANGELA FOULKES (DEPUTY CHAIR, CROWN FORESTRY RENTAL TRUST):  BUT SUCCESSIVE GOVERNMENTS HAVE CHANGED POLICY REGULARLY AND SINCE THE EARLY 90S THE DESIRE HAS BEEN NOT TO SETTLE THE TREES ON THEIR OWN — WHICH I THINK EVERYBODY EXPECTED INITIALLY — BUT TO BRING THE FORESTRY TRUST INTO THE COMPREHENSIVE SETTLEMENTS.  NOW, THAT HAS MEANT THAT THE JOB I THINK, HAS TAKEN A LOT LONGER; HAS BEEN MORE COMPLICATED AND FOR A LOT OF CLAIMANTS THEY’VE GONE DOWN ONE TRACK AND THEN GOVERNMENT POLICY HAS CHANGED AND THEY’VE GONE DOWN ANOTHER TRACK AND THEN THEY’VE CHANGED AGAIN AND THEY’VE FOUND THEMSELVES GOING DOWN OTHER TRACKS.  SO I THINK THE TRUST’S ROLE HAS CHANGED CONSIDERABLY OVER THE 12-YEAR PERIOD AND WHAT WE’RE SEEING NOW REALLY IS JUST ASSESSMENT, BASED ON WHAT LOOKS LIKE THE POLICY OF THE CURRENT GOVERNMENT; WHAT LOOKS LIKE THE ASPIRATIONS OF THE CLAIMANTS AND WHICH LOOKS TO THE FUTURE AND TRIES TO WORK OUT HOW SMOOTHLY THAT MIGHT GO AND HOW WE CAN MAKE CERTAIN WE’RE AN ASSISTANCE, NOT AN IMPEDIMENT.

REPORTER:  SO WOULD YOU LIKE TO STICK YOUR NECK OUT AND SAY WHEN YOU THINK YOU MIGHT BE OUT OF A JOB?

FOULKES:  NO, I WOULDN’T LIKE TO STICK MY NECK OUT BUT ONE WOULD HOPE THAT YOU WERE LOOKING AT THE TRUST BEING A CONSIDERABLY SMALLER ORGANISATION WITHIN FIVE YEARS AND GONE IN  AROUND TEN YEARS BUT THAT’S NOT US.  AT THE END OF THE DAY ALL WE CAN DO IS ENSURE THAT WE SMOOTH THE PROCESS FOR THE KEY PLAYERS WHICH ARE THE CLAIMANTS AND THE CROWN, AND THE TRIBUNAL OR THE OFFICE OF TREATY SETTLEMENTS.  WE DON’T MAKE SETTLEMENTS.  WE OFTEN GET BLAMED FOR THEM NOT BEING MADE BUT AT THE END OF THE DAY WE PROVIDE THE FUNDS FOR PEOPLE TO TAKE CLAIMS AND A LOT OF WORK HAS BEEN DONE IN THAT.  OVER 600 REPORTS HAVE BEEN WRITTEN.  LOTS OF REPORTS; DECISIONS SITTING THERE AT THE TRIBUNAL; READY TO GET RESPONSES.

REPORTER:  ONE GETS THE IMPRESSION LISTENING TO EVERYONE SAYING THAT IT ALL HAS TO BE SORTED OUT; ALL THE SETTLEMENTS HAVE TO BE FINISHED AS SOON AS POSSIBLE, THAT IT’S THE CLAIMANTS’ FAULT.  FROM YOUR VIEWPOINT IS IT THE CLAIMANTS’ FAULT THAT EVERYTHING IS TAKING SO LONG?

FOULKES:  NO, I DON’T THINK IT IS.  I THINK IT’S A MIXTURE OF THINGS.  FIRSTLY, POLICY HAS CHANGED ON CLAIMANTS.  SECONDLY, CLAIMANTS HAVE A LOT OF WORK TO DO TO GET TO THE STAGE WHERE THEY CAN NEGOTIATE AND I THINK PEOPLE UNDERESTIMATE THE AMOUNT OF WORK, A LOT OF IT UNPAID, THAT MAORI GROUPS HAVE PUT IN TO GET TO THE STAGE WHERE THEY CAN PRESENT THEIR CLAIMS.  AND THE ISSUES ARE COMPLEX.  I MEAN IF THERE WAS NO DISPUTE ABOUT WHAT HAD HAPPENED IN THE ALIENATION OF LAND WE PRESUMABLY WOULDN’T HAVE A CLAIMS PROCESS.  BUT FROM MY OUTSIDE AND VERY INEXPERIENCED PERSPECTIVE, EVERY RORT AND DEAL THAT COULD BE DONE TO TAKE LAND OR HIDE WHY LAND WAS TAKEN, WAS USED.  AND SO GETTING THE FACTS HAS BEEN VERY HARD AND IT’S TAKEN A TREMENDOUS AMOUNT OF RESOURCE FROM MAORI AND EVEN THOUGH PEOPLE LOOK AT THE CROWN FOREST RENTAL TRUST AND SAY LOOK ,YOU KNOW, THERE WAS THAT BIG CHUNK OF MONEY THERE AND QUESTION HOW IT’S BEEN SPENT OR WHETHER IT’S BEEN VALUE FOR MONEY. THE WORK THAT’S BEEN DONE FOR NOTHING BY A WHOLE RANGE OF PEOPLE AND THE EFFORT AND THE ORGANISATION, IT’S BEEN PHENOMENAL.  AND SO I DON’T THINK IT’S THE FAULT OF CLAIMANTS.  WE’RE TRYING TO UNPICK UP TO 160 YEARS OF THE WHOLE RANGE OF DIFFERENT FORMS OF ALIENATION AND THAT DOESN’T HAPPEN OVERNIGHT.

PRESENTER:  WHAT DO YOU THINK ARE THE DANGERS IN SETTING A DATE FOR COMPLETION OF SETTLEMENTS?

FOULKES:  THAT YOU DON’T DO THEM PROPERLY.  THAT THE DESIRE TO FINISH MEANS THAT THEY’RE DONE IN A WAY THAT DOESN’T FULLY TAKE NOTE OF ALL THE FACTS AND THAT PEOPLE ARE LEFT FEELING DISAPPOINTED OR FURTHER ALIENATED BY THE SETTLEMENT PROCESS AND THEN IT’S NOT PUT TO BED FOR GOOD.  I MEAN I’D RATHER TAKE FIVE YEARS LONGER AND HAVE BOTH CLAIMANTS AND THE CROWN SATISFIED THAT THEY’VE DONE A REALLY SOLID JOB THAN HAVE THE JOB DONE IN A HURRY FOR SHORT-TERM POLITICAL EXPEDIENCY AND A GROUP OF CLAIMANTS WHO FEEL AT THE END OF IT THAT THEY HAVEN’T HAD A FAIR DEAL.  THAT DOESN’T SOLVE THE PROBLEM.

ENDS

(Source: NEWZTEL NEWS AGENCY LTD)